The veil nonsense
A topic suggestion was given by Anton Mast regarding the prohibition of girls wearing veils while playing soccer. It’s interesting because this has been the topic of the week in the English conversation classes I give around the city. I am more than a little surprised at the hostility here toward muslims. Every person with a strong negative reaction to the “reasonable accomodation” catchphrase has been unable to give me a concrete example of how these “accomodations” have affected them in their day to day life. It’s as though people are getting worked up over something that has no impact whatsoever on their lives. I have heard the arguments which basically all center around the idea that “if you come here, you must conform to our way of life”, and I am not convinced.
The anti “reasonable accomodation” stance is, dare I say it, hypocritical. Because no matter how hard an immigrant tries to conform, they will never be “pure laine quebecois”. The message is “come and join our free society as long as you follow our rules, oh and by the way, you can never truly be 100% a part of our culture.” You can’t have it both ways. Either we live in an open and free society or we don’t. You can’t go around singling out certain forms of free expression because you don’t like them. That’s, if I may say so, anti-Canadian.
And all I can do is laugh when people say the veil was banned for “safety reasons”. Gimme a frickin’ break. I’m gonna call a spade a spade (a questionable expression itself) and go on record saying it’s a blatant example of prejudice, pure and simple.
Of course, all views are welcome here. Go ahead, weigh in.
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OK That’s it TORN… I’m gonna … well…. ah screw it
I agree =)
But I still find the hijab to be an offense to freedom at large. A diminution of women of the world. That somehow a woman should hide her hair… cuz men are gonna come running at her with their dicks out with uncontrollable ragging hardons. Come on. The other day this convert dude on TV in Montreal was talking that he wont go on Ste-Catherine in summer time because of the way women dress. Dude has more issues with women and his own sexuality than religion will ever be able to fix for him.
But then I’m an atheist with a Dawkinsian view of religion.
Dave, it’s not as simplistic as you make it seem. Many of my orthodox, female Muslim friends wear hijabs, and none of them see it as demeaning. While they each have their own empowering spins on why they wear it, the main point they have conveyed is that it is a choice to wear one. Dressing “modestly” is, depending on your Muslim community, open to interpretation.
I’m not Muslim, I’m not orthodox anything (though I am religious), and I prefer to avoid places where women (or men) are dressed scantily. I mean, really, there’s no good reason for a g-string to be showing! ;)
I agree that this veil banning business is all an excuse. Very convenient if you want to air out some racist resentment while posturing as a ‘democrat’ and all that jazz. I hope the rabid anti-muslim feeling that is prevalent in some countries is not invading Canada (but I’m not keeping my hopes up high).
For the information of the person who thinks the veil is a symbol of the women’s oppression, well think again and take a good look around you : everywhere you women’s bodies exploited to sell anything from cars to yogurts. Many women who chose to wear the veil do make a feminist statement saying : ‘I not a sexual object.’ (I put the emphasis on the word ‘chose’, I don’t include women who have to wear the veil because it’s illegal not to in their country). Why people all over the world make it their business to oppress women about what they wear (whether it’s too scant or not enough !!!) is beyond me !
I don’t care one way or the other what people believe or chose to wear, as long as they don’t infringe upon my freedom. Even if I don’t agree with them, I want them to be free and not oppressed.
The term “calling a spade a spade” is derived from a card game; it has nothing questionable about it…except in the mind of someone trying to imply that it reflects something of a politically in-correct nature!
LODO, you are defending one extreme by attacking another. Illogical.
Muslim women here may have a choice to wear it or not (and that is debatable to which point those who wear do it by choice - how much choice does a person have when that person has been indoctrinated?) but there are millions upon millions of women world wide who have no choice and that hijab is symbolic of that oppression. Hijab, Burka.
So, to defend an abstract notion of equality, we should ask an 11 year old girl to renounce her family, her community, and her religion in order to participate fully in the culture she lives in? That hardly seems fair.
Dave, your idea of ‘freedom’ is ‘You are free to be the way I want you to be’. Have you ever wondered why a simple headscarf makes you so angry ? Do you feel the same towards a kippa or a sikh turban ? Yes, there definitely are many women who wear the headscarf as a well-thought choice. Perhaps, if you considered them human enough to actually have a conversation with them, you would realize they have a working brain and there’s no need for you to patronize or denigrate them.
Sorry, I got the names of the posters mixed up here, I was not answering Dave but VILA H.
MLKH: No, you were definitely responding to Dave. Look again–mine is the comment that immediately precedes yours (beginning “So, to defend…”)